This is a guest poster I am very excited about. She’s not a blogger, but she IS my friend (she gets mentioned semi-regularly), and because she loves me and thinks I’m great1, she encouraged me to do this series, was the first person to volunteer to write for it, and even helped me come up with some of the questions! She makes me think and makes me laugh, so I hope you enjoy her post! BTW yes this photo is actually her – giant bow-from-a-present was courtesy of yours truly. :P
Tell us a bit about yourself and your beliefs. How did you develop them? Does your family have similar beliefs to yours?
I’m 24 and female, born, raised and living in New Zealand. I like Sugarland, Stargate, and the colour red. At the moment I’m an ICT student; before that I did a degree in English lit. and philosophy.
I usually describe myself as “not religious.” Depending on the company, I might add something like “but I did go to an Anglican high school” to show that I do have some experience with religion. I’m an atheist. I don’t believe in the Christian God or any other. I don’t believe in anything supernatural—ghosts, souls, psychics, fairies, Tarot cards, vampires, destiny, that walking under a ladder is bad luck…
Neither of my parents are religious, but dad is of the Dawkins-quoting, anti-religious variety, while mum is happy for people to believe what they like so long as they’re not forcing it on others or otherwise causing harm.
I feel like I grew out of the belief in ‘something big out there somewhere’ that I had as a kid. I think about Christianity and other current religions pretty much the same way I think about Greek mythology. For many things, it’s a case of ‘why would I believe that?’ I find it far more plausible that the stories of Jesus’ miraculous acts are tales or legends distorted over time than that a man could actually turn water into wine.
Studying philosophy of religion at uni didn’t change what I believe (wasn’t supposed to), but I did learn about the flaws in arguments about existence of god(s), both for and against, which I think makes my position a more informed one.
I suspect that what I read and watched on television had some influence too. Star Trek, with its extremely humanist values, for example. =D
Do you discuss your beliefs with others in real life? Why/why not? If you blog, do you write about them?
Yes, sometimes. I’m more interested in talking about belief in general than my own personal beliefs though. It’s a personality thing—I’m bad at in-depth discussions, especially with people I don’t know well.
Does your family celebrate Christmas, Easter or other religious/cultural holidays? If yes, how?
We do Christmas: family get-together, turkey, pavlova, presents… Most of my family aren’t religious so it’s not an explicitly Christian celebration. I’ve been to midnight mass a few times, which was always interesting.
It annoys me when people say that ‘Jesus is the reason for the season.’ I understand that the birth and life of Jesus gives Christians a reason to celebrate, and that’s fine. But, to me, a party in the middle of winter, hanging out with family you don’t often see, giving and getting presents, and stuffing yourself with good food is a fantastic idea in and of itself. And one that is a lot older than any current religion. It’s just a shame Christmas is in summer here. =P
Easter doesn’t really hold any significance for me. I’m not a Christian and it’s not the beginning of Spring so it’s basically just a day off.
My family usually does something (read: cake *g*) to mark Darwin Day on February 12th. Evolutionary theory is something I think is both interesting and important so it’s nice to have a date to give it some thought.
Do you think there is a stereotypical secular person? Do you think you fit that stereotype?
I thought this question would be easy but it wasn’t… I would guess that because being non-religious is not unusual in New Zealand, there isn’t a strong stereotype.
Some possibilities that came to mind were: intellectual/nerdy (especially interested in science), argumentative, unemotional, bitter/grumpy/unfulfilled, cynical/pessimistic, and male. The only one that applies to me is ‘nerdy,’ and I’m more into stories than science.
What do you think is the biggest misconception held about secular people? Does it bother you? Why/why not?
Again, I don’t think this is strong in New Zealand. I don’t have these directed at me personally so they bother me more on an intellectual level, and I know that not all, or even most, non-secular people believe these…
You can’t be a good person without religion to guide you.
There are plenty of approaches to morality that are independent of religion.
People who don’t believe are that way because of bad experiences.
For some, sure, but not all. I’m not bitter, resentful or traumatised. Just… not convinced. This idea is apparently common in pop culture.
Atheists like Richard Dawkins just enjoy picking holes in religion and ridiculing people’s beliefs just because they are intellectual snobs/are hung up on logic/like to argue.
Yes, some secular people are jerks, or come across as jerks. Yes, it can be frustrating that people believe (and act on) things you think are just plain wrong. But the vast majority who argue against religion do it because they care about people. They see unnecessary suffering and they want to make the world a better place.
Have you ever felt bullied or marginalised due to your beliefs?
No. NZ is generally nice like that. =) Annoyed and frustrated, yes.
What do you believe happens to people when they die?
Nothing. Time’s up.
Do you have any experience with people evangelising to you? If yes, how do you respond?
I smile and take the pamphlet or, if they want to chat, tell them they’re wasting their time. I’d like to debate but it’s just not me. I did print off an evangelical atheist pamphlet ready to give the next Mormons or Jehovah’s Witnesses that knock on my door though. ;-)
Are you familiar with any celebrities/fictional characters who self-identify as secular? Any favorites?
Katharine Hepburn: “I’m an atheist, and that’s it. I believe there’s nothing we can know except that we should be kind to each other and do what we can for people.” She was pretty cool.
Any interesting thoughts or questions to kick-start comments and discussions on this post?
I found the questions about stereotypes and misconceptions hard. I have some vague ideas but I don’t really know if people think that way or not, or have some other stereotype entirely. So, I’d be interested to hear from any of Holly’s religious readers what their idea of the stereotypical atheist is. Especially if it involves jokes!
This is the seventh post in a series I have running at the moment. Click here to see the rest, and if you are interested in participating, leave me a comment and I will email you. Thank you for reading and joining the discussion! :)
- I made this part up, but it’s my blog so I’m allowed to! Heheh! [↩]
I think the connection between Christianity and Greek mythology makes a lot of sense. Somebody else (don’t remember who, sorry) said that they’ve wondered whether God will, eventually, end up being viewing in the same light as Zeus and Thor etc. As something historical people believed in, but which is now commonly accepted as not actually existing. Wait…people don’t actually still believe that Zeus/Thor etc are real, right?
I remember that Philosophy of Religion class, haha, although I think I learned more in the Collective Behaviour one…about cults!!
I love that you actually do something for Darwin Day…which I actually don’t think I even knew existed! o.O
I think you already know how much I love Atheist Barbie. ;) Also, o.O at the church sign. That’s so bad!
As for the myth about people not believing due to a bad experience, I think it’s interesting that nobody who has posted in this series fits into this category (or, if they do, they’re not disclosing it). Yes! Apparently some people ARE non-religious because they just do not believe!
Thank you!! :D
You’re welcome! =D
I’d be willing to bet there are people who follow the ancient Roman or Greek religions, actually. But yeah, I think it generally works well to raise the question of why those tales are ‘obviously’ mythical and current religions not. It’s as if somewhere along the line, when enough time passes, or enough people stop believing, or something, that “religion” turns into “myths and legends.” I was listening to a podcast the other day that used fairies in a similar comparison, saying that you don’t even have to go very far back at all (like, a couple of hundred years) for belief in fairies to be common.
Actually, not that class! This one was way more interesting, lol.
The ever-reliable Yahoo Answers informs me that you are correct! Hellenistic Pagans do in fact worship Greek gods! Although, seeing as I had never heard of this religion before, I think it’s safe to say that on the whole, those gods aren’t recognised as real. ?
Interesting point about the fairies though. Did you ever see that movie about the two little girls who allegedly photographed them somewhere in the UK? Of course it was eventually proven to be a hoax, but at the time, a fairly decent number of people believed the photos were real!
No I didn’t, but that does sounds familiar. Makes sense, I suppose, if people did believe they existed. There’s a movie??
Yep! Here’s the Wikipedia link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cottingley_Fairies) and here’s the info about the movie (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119095/). 1917 isn’t even 100 years ago!
Thanks! It looks interesting! Especially that they chose to make the fairies real in the movie.
I’m so happy to hear that in other areas of the world, Atheists aren’t as persecuted as they are in America. One comment that struck me in particular is when you say you “understand that the birth and life of Jesus gives Christians a reason to celebrate”…please keep in mind that many do not recognize the existence of Jesus in any context at all.
Jesus may not have been a deity, or Jesus may have been a wholly fabricated invention, based on a pastiche of tales of Osiris, Mithra, Ra, and other pagan unproven beliefs. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_myth_theory for more.
Good for you for having the intelligence to remain steadfast in your quest for knowledge!
Thanks for reading and commenting!
I guess I should have added a “for those who believe” or something in that sentence. I find the pastiche idea fascinating – I remember seeing a YouTube video that listed all the commonalities between Jesus, Osiris, and others I forget, and being amazed at how common certain characteristics were/are across cultures.
I loved this article- the Barbie was so adorable :D Thank you for sharing such an informative article. I used to be an athiest but being a fashion designer-fenatic I realised that every piece of clothing I wear has been designed by someone, and not just clothes, the computers I’m typing on right now was created by a highly intelligent person too. So I found it increasinly difficult to believe that no one created this amazingly complex and intrictae universe.
xx
Hehe I know, I really liked the Barbie too, I thought it was very clever. :)
I think you have a really interesting perspective on creation and design. I hadn’t come across someone explain it like that before. May I ask what you describe your beliefs as now? Do you follow any particular religion or attend a church?
Thanks for commenting! :)
Hi Holly
So lovely to hear from you! Thank you for taking the time out to email me.
This is a topic of great importance and very close to my heart. I was raised as an atheist in Shanghai, my whole family was. When someone told me one day about Jesus Christ and His miracles I thought they were not dissimilar to the fairy tales I’d read when I was young. That was until I was told about His immense love for us.
I already realised, through observation about the world that design is fundamental in our lives, in our civilisation and it is literally everywhere around us. So my atheism was being challenged. Also, even studying science through high school and university (I’m a veterinarian), I realised that science provides us with theories, and most theories never make it to a ‘law’ as they are constantly changed whenever people make new discoveries through experimentation. So I realised that science is not absolute.
When I was young, I was hurt by my best friend. I’m sure you can imagine, our friends, back then, were our everything. When I had heard that God, despite His omniscient nature, knew that we would one day betray Him (ignore/reject, you can use whichever verb you like), instead of destroying us, which He could have rightly done so, He came in the form of a man (can you imagine the humility it took for the Lord of the heavens to come in flesh, to be born in a stinky horse shed?), not to condemn us, not to tell us how foolish we are to be behaving the way we do, but to come to save us.
I used to think that if I had the ability to foresee that my best friend was going to hurt me, I’d NEVER have been friends with her in the first place. But that’s not how God rolled. When Jesus was on earth, He taught the most revolutionary teachings. His teachings are the cornerstones of western law – equality, love your neighbour as yourself. He even said outrageous stuff like ‘love those who hate you, pray for those who persecute you.’And He was not an empty talker either, He prayed for the dues crucifying Him ”Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”
Then there was Jesus claim that He was the Son of God, sometimes He said that He WAS/IS God. When we are faced with this – there are only 3 explanations:
1. Jesus was a lunatic – no sane man would call himself God! But reading what Jesus had said and done, every literacy genius and historian in antiquity regarded Him as an amazing teacher, no way a lunatic
2. Jesus was a liar- he could have been kidding right? You’d think he’d stop kidding when He was faced with death as penalty as His punishment for his blasphemy. NO ONE would die for a lie! And definitely no one would die for a lie if he knew it was a lie! But Jesus insisted, moments before His death that Yes He is God.
3. The only other option we are left with is that Jesus IS the Son of God, who He claims to be. This is the only option. And as hard it is for my bran to comprehend it, I could not deny the truth. My life has changed so drastically because of my realisation of this truth.
There’s also the disciples – these uneducated fisherman/tax collectors all ran away when they’d heard that Jesus had been captured and crucified. But something happened, a week later they were speaking like prodigy orators and these spineless men were not afraid to die for something they believed in – not only did they say that they believed, they said that they SAW Jesus rise from the dead. So unless something miraculous definitely happened, these men would not have died for lies they’d made up.
So here’s the synopsis of how I became a Christian. I realised that in the face of a holy God, I am so sinful. I used to put my selfishness and pride down to me being an only-child. Now I realise how sinful I am. But God is so amazing, He has been changing me and His blessings in my life are more I can count – from my schooling years, to my uni years, to my marriage, to my boutique, to my blog. Let me know if you’d like to know more :)
I hope this helps and have not bored you. I’m here if you need anything. Hope you’re having a splendid week.
Best regards
Cecylia
Thanks for reading – I’m glad you enjoyed it!
I haven’t met many people who went from being atheists to being religious so it’s interesting to hear what changed your mind – especially since I’d never thought of fashion design and faith together like that. =)
Hi!
Meet another one. I didn’t believe in God (though I did dabble in forms of spirituality, so I maybe wasn’t an atheist in the strictest sense – but I actually actively tried to discourage the only 2 friends I had who were Christians from going to church because I thought they were nuts). However, I do now believe in God, and I guess I’m a Christian.
From my studies of history, it’s pretty clear that Jesus did exist – in terms of there was a Rabbi called Jesus back in the day so to speak, but it’s up to people what they choose to believe about him in terms of performing miracles, being God etc.
Also on the Christmas thing – one of my friends did a guest post for me (I had a “Christmas” blog series, Holly did a guest post too!) and it turns out she doesn’t believe in celebrating Christmas, because she believes it to be nothing to do with Christianity since Christians kinda stole that holiday from the pagans winter solstice celebrations…
Hmm, I am now thinking I might have to do some kind of follow-up to this series getting people to talk about how they developed their faith! That could be REALLY interesting! :) An LDS commenter posted on Brooke’s entry saying she wished this series had been more balanced to begin with. We shall see. I kind of want my blog back for awhile first though, lol! :P
So how did you go from discouraging friends from attending church to become a believer?
Oh yeah! I remember reading that post in your series! It totally scrambled my brain. I had to read it twice to make sure I understood what she was actually saying! It was interesting though, and it turns out that Gloriavale, the cult we were talking about earlier, as well as some other very conservative Christian bloggers I’ve come across online, also do not celebrate Christmas for that same reason.
Incidentally, Gloriavale also do not “do” Easter or birthdays (do not remember why, sorry!) and, if I remember correctly, do not call the days of the week Monday, Tuesday etc. They refer to them as First Day (Sun), Second Day (Mon) and so on. It struck me as extremely unusual, especially the lack of observing Easter. o.O
Oh look! Here I go off on a tangent! :P
Yep, Hannah was really nervous about posting that blog. I had much more Christians in that blog series than I expected, and a few of them were surprised to hear that Christians are not a majority of my blog readership and it sent them into a panic about posting.
I did see that comment on Brooke’s post, and it’s interesting because I felt the same way (about wishing the series had been more balanced – not about everything else she wrote in the comment necessarily!). I’ve just written a post and have mentioned this series – I’ve found it so interesting and I’m glad you did it. But I’ll be honest and admit that a few things people have written on the posts made me feel hurt – which surprised me because I always considered myself not to be an easily offended person and nothing has been said directly to me that is any way offensive or hurtful.
As for how I became a Christian – that’s not one for a comment as it’s a long and winding journey rather than what they often nickname a ‘road to Damascus’ moment. It also has good potential for me coming across as a total freak and nutter.
I ended up having a long chat with my friend (an atheist) because of this series, and it was funny how many things he’d assumed about my beliefs, morals and values based on Christian stereotype. He’s known me since I was 15 so it was an interesting (and draining) conversation over about 3+ hours.
I LOVE that you tell them they’re wasting your time. I need to build to say that!
Well, usually I say wasting their time, but I mean both. ;-)
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