This is a guest poster I am very excited about. She’s not a blogger, but she IS my friend (she gets mentioned semi-regularly), and because she loves me and thinks I’m great¹, she encouraged me to do this series, was the first person to volunteer to write for it, and even helped me come up with some of the questions! She makes me think and makes me laugh, so I hope you enjoy her post! BTW yes this photo is actually her – giant bow-from-a-present was courtesy of yours truly. :P

Tell us a bit about yourself and your beliefs. How did you develop them? Does your family have similar beliefs to yours?
I’m 24 and female, born, raised and living in New Zealand. I like Sugarland, Stargate, and the colour red. At the moment I’m an ICT student; before that I did a degree in English lit. and philosophy.
I usually describe myself as “not religious.” Depending on the company, I might add something like “but I did go to an Anglican high school” to show that I do have some experience with religion. I’m an atheist. I don’t believe in the Christian God or any other. I don’t believe in anything supernatural—ghosts, souls, psychics, fairies, Tarot cards, vampires, destiny, that walking under a ladder is bad luck…
Neither of my parents are religious, but dad is of the Dawkins-quoting, anti-religious variety, while mum is happy for people to believe what they like so long as they’re not forcing it on others or otherwise causing harm.
I feel like I grew out of the belief in ‘something big out there somewhere’ that I had as a kid. I think about Christianity and other current religions pretty much the same way I think about Greek mythology. For many things, it’s a case of ‘why would I believe that?’ I find it far more plausible that the stories of Jesus’ miraculous acts are tales or legends distorted over time than that a man could actually turn water into wine.
Studying philosophy of religion at uni didn’t change what I believe (wasn’t supposed to), but I did learn about the flaws in arguments about existence of god(s), both for and against, which I think makes my position a more informed one.
I suspect that what I read and watched on television had some influence too. Star Trek, with its extremely humanist values, for example. =D

Do you discuss your beliefs with others in real life? Why/why not? If you blog, do you write about them?
Yes, sometimes. I’m more interested in talking about belief in general than my own personal beliefs though. It’s a personality thing—I’m bad at in-depth discussions, especially with people I don’t know well.

Does your family celebrate Christmas, Easter or other religious/cultural holidays? If yes, how?
We do Christmas: family get-together, turkey, pavlova, presents… Most of my family aren’t religious so it’s not an explicitly Christian celebration. I’ve been to midnight mass a few times, which was always interesting.
It annoys me when people say that ‘Jesus is the reason for the season.’ I understand that the birth and life of Jesus gives Christians a reason to celebrate, and that’s fine. But, to me, a party in the middle of winter, hanging out with family you don’t often see, giving and getting presents, and stuffing yourself with good food is a fantastic idea in and of itself. And one that is a lot older than any current religion. It’s just a shame Christmas is in summer here. =P
Easter doesn’t really hold any significance for me. I’m not a Christian and it’s not the beginning of Spring so it’s basically just a day off.
My family usually does something (read: cake *g*) to mark Darwin Day on February 12th. Evolutionary theory is something I think is both interesting and important so it’s nice to have a date to give it some thought.

Do you think there is a stereotypical secular person? Do you think you fit that stereotype?
I thought this question would be easy but it wasn’t… I would guess that because being non-religious is not unusual in New Zealand, there isn’t a strong stereotype.
Some possibilities that came to mind were: intellectual/nerdy (especially interested in science), argumentative, unemotional, bitter/grumpy/unfulfilled, cynical/pessimistic, and male. The only one that applies to me is ‘nerdy,’ and I’m more into stories than science.

What do you think is the biggest misconception held about secular people? Does it bother you? Why/why not?
Again, I don’t think this is strong in New Zealand. I don’t have these directed at me personally so they bother me more on an intellectual level, and I know that not all, or even most, non-secular people believe these…

You can’t be a good person without religion to guide you.
There are plenty of approaches to morality that are independent of religion.

People who don’t believe are that way because of bad experiences.
For some, sure, but not all. I’m not bitter, resentful or traumatised. Just… not convinced. This idea is apparently common in pop culture.

Atheists like Richard Dawkins just enjoy picking holes in religion and ridiculing people’s beliefs just because they are intellectual snobs/are hung up on logic/like to argue.
Yes, some secular people are jerks, or come across as jerks. Yes, it can be frustrating that people believe (and act on) things you think are just plain wrong. But the vast majority who argue against religion do it because they care about people. They see unnecessary suffering and they want to make the world a better place.

Have you ever felt bullied or marginalised due to your beliefs?
No. NZ is generally nice like that. =) Annoyed and frustrated, yes.

What do you believe happens to people when they die?
Nothing. Time’s up.

Do you have any experience with people evangelising to you? If yes, how do you respond?
I smile and take the pamphlet or, if they want to chat, tell them they’re wasting their time. I’d like to debate but it’s just not me. I did print off an evangelical atheist pamphlet ready to give the next Mormons or Jehovah’s Witnesses that knock on my door though. ;-)

Are you familiar with any celebrities/fictional characters who self-identify as secular? Any favorites?
Katharine Hepburn: “I’m an atheist, and that’s it. I believe there’s nothing we can know except that we should be kind to each other and do what we can for people.” She was pretty cool.

Any interesting thoughts or questions to kick-start comments and discussions on this post?
I found the questions about stereotypes and misconceptions hard. I have some vague ideas but I don’t really know if people think that way or not, or have some other stereotype entirely. So, I’d be interested to hear from any of Holly’s religious readers what their idea of the stereotypical atheist is. Especially if it involves jokes!

This is the seventh post in a series I have running at the moment. Click here to see the rest, and if you are interested in participating, leave me a comment and I will email you. Thank you for reading and joining the discussion! :)

1. I made this part up, but it’s my blog so I’m allowed to! Heheh! [↩]

Yet another Kiwi blogger making an appearance today! I was put in touch with Iain via Twitter, and he has a very interesting perspective, as he used to be a Christian. I think he might win the prize so far for the most in-depth answers, but they’re definitely worth a read!!

Tell us a bit about yourself and your beliefs. How did you develop them? Does your family have similar beliefs to yours?
If you had asked me to write about my beliefs ten years ago, I would have told you that I was a Christian. There are two types of “testimonial” stories. The first is the Road to Damascus conversion story involving a terrible sinner (who probably does martial arts or plays D&D) becoming a saint in the twinkling of the eye. The other version – my version – is the slow, boring tale of a child in a Christian home who takes in Christianity by osmosis. I suppose I was especially holy as a child since I responded to “altar calls” several times at church camps. Not many people can say that they’ve had multiple conversions! ;)
I was always a fairly intellectual sort of Christian. I enjoyed learning the details of theology and didn’t particularly like “mysteries” or “paradoxes”. I read philosophy for fun on the side and studied apologetics whenever I could. It was this kind of intellectual hunger that caused me to study theology at the Bible College of New Zealand (now Laidlaw College). Part of the reason why I kept studying higher levels of theology was because I also had questions and doubts. As Chuck Missler said, if you think you have found a contradiction in the Bible then you need to keep studying the Bible until you’ve solved the problem. So, I figured that the best answer to my tricky religious questions was more theology!
My quest for theological answers has so far left me intellectually unsatisfied (at least from a pro-theistic perspective). I found that studying higher theology was like learning the details of a grand mansion in a faraway land. In this mansion, the rooms are filled with interesting treasures and pleasures and you can spend a lifetime cataloging its contents. The problem with this mansion is that it is lost somewhere in a dark forest and the way to the mansion (the philosophical first principles and the foundational evidence that underpin religious claims) has been completely forgotten by even the greatest Mansionologists. In this way, higher theology and the deepest issues of religion show that they are filled with plenty of light and sound but totally lack foundational, verifiable substance. I have since studied philosophy at a postgraduate academic level and have spent the last few years of my life getting more comfortable with increasing levels of disbelief: progressive evangelical, waffly liberal, angry and reactionary atheist, and now philosophically comfortable strong agnostic.
I don’t say “agnostic” in the vague, weak sense of religious indecisiveness that many people might mean. There is a group of people in philosophy, the verificationists, who believe that those things which cannot be proven even in principle have no meaning (the actual definition is quite a bit weirder but don’t worry about it!). When you apply that to religion you get the idea called ignosticism (theological noncognitivism). That simply means that statements about transcendent realities (such as heaven) or transcendent beings (such as god) are meaningless. According to ignosticism, somebody who says, “I believe in God” might as well be saying, “I believe that flxghrm.” For ignostics, most religious claims ultimately don’t really mean anything therefore it would be impossibly to actually believe them. So, I am a strong agnostic: I don’t know anything about transcendent truths and neither does anybody else. I am also an ignostic: only statements about this present reality can be meaningfully thought about and assented to (“believed”) by the human brain.

Do you discuss your beliefs with others in real life? Why/why not? If you blog, do you write about them?
I enjoy discussing my beliefs and religion greatly but I am quite careful about who I talk with. Due to my various personal and professional contacts, I know many people of varying beliefs. The philosopher and skeptic in me would just love to get into a whopping debate about all sorts of things but that just isn’t always prudent for my career or my relationships. For now I’m sticking with the mantra of Phil Plait: Don’t be a dick. If somebody has a good enough relationship of mutual love and respect with me and wants to talk about my beliefs then I’m open to that but I’m not going to savagely pounce on the nearest prayer circle whenever I see it.

Does your family celebrate Christmas, Easter or other religious/cultural holidays? If yes, how?
My father and sister are Christian while my mother is a religion-friendly agnostic. Growing up, my mother was supportive of the religious beliefs of all of us and so my family quite happily went to church as well as celebrated Christmas, Easter, and the rest of the church calendar for years. These days, much of Christmas is comfortably secular anyway and tends to revolve around time together with loved-ones and giving gifts. That’s not a very difficult kind of religious holiday to celebrate regardless of your beliefs!

Do you think there is a stereotypical secular person? Do you think you fit that stereotype?
What do you think is the biggest misconception held about secular people? Does it bother you? Why/why not?
I know of one stereotype of secular people from a religious perspective. If I talk to my Christian friends or colleagues about secular people I tend to hear themes such as the over-dependence on science as the moderator of truth and the general lack of a moral compass (selfishness, moral egoism, or even nihilism).
I probably do fit the first part but I don’t think it’s a bad thing. As a skeptic, I think that any belief needs to be rationally or empirically justifiable. The best tool we have today for the empirical part is the scientific method! The alternative, believing anything you want or that you intuitively feel is correct, means you are at best accidentally correct and at worst totally mistaken. Sometimes unverified beliefs are harmless, inconsequential, or even comforting. All too often, unverified beliefs can have tragic consequences. Humanity just doesn’t need wishful thinking like that.
As for the second part, moral nihilism or egoism, this doesn’t fit me at all. This stereotype of secular people bothers me greatly and I think it is caused by two religious “blind-spots”. I believe that the religious obsession with eternal life has caused them to have a blind-spot with regards to the value of transient things. Our universe is precious, beautiful, amazing, and awe-inspiring. A sunrise at the beach is no less magnificent because of the impending sunset. A new-born baby is no less special because it is slowly aging. Life is no less astounding and precious because of death (in fact, perhaps its fragility makes it even more precious!). Additionally, the second religious blind-spot is caused by the fixation on moral objectivism. I won’t go into details here but to start on the offensive I’ll say that religious people are mistaken by their belief that they have access to an objective moral system. There are a great many problems with religious moral claims and moral systems (look up the Euthyphro Dilemma for a start). However, more importantly, it is perfectly possible to have a fully realised secular moral system. Such a moral system begins by looking at real-world needs, real-world harms, and real-world consequences. We don’t need to follow a theoretical divine rulebook to be good to each other. We just need rational thought, mutually respectful communication and, above all, empathy.

What do you believe happens to people when they die?
My beliefs about death are not very exciting. I believe that the human mind literally is the functioning human brain so when our brain dies we are gone. I believe that the only “afterlife” we have as people is the impact that we have had on others, children we may have had, and the memories we leave behind in the community of those who loved us. That’s more than enough for me and all that anyone could ask for.

Do you have any experience with people evangelising to you? If yes, how do you respond?
I haven’t had anyone seriously evangelise to me in years. This doesn’t include the low-level passive evangelism I get fairly regularly at my workplace (I won’t go into details there haha). In fact, a decade ago I would have been the person doing the evangelising! I tend to welcome religious discussion. If a friend is doing the evangelising I tend to be friendly, non-confrontational, and exceedingly tactful. I’ll admit, it’s sometimes easier just to nod and smile to the point of intellectual retreat (it’s hard to be a big, mean ignostic all the time). If a stranger is doing the evangelising then I get to dust off the anti-apologetics guns for a bit >:)

Are you familiar with any celebrities/fictional characters who self-identify as secular? Any favorites?
Even though NZ is a very secular country, my greatest connection to secularism is through the internet and podcasts specifically. From the atheist camp, my favourite secular celebrities are probably people like Dawkins, Dennett, Harris, and Hitchens (PBUH). Then there are atheist podcasters like those from The Atheist Experience and Dogma Free America. I also like people from the skeptic community such as the hosts from The Skeptic’s Guide to the Universe. There are a lot of passionate, intelligent, and interesting people out there to find!

Any interesting thoughts or questions to kick-start comments and discussions on this post?
I discussed “ignosticism”, the idea that statements about transcendent things are meaningless. Do you agree with me or am I simply going too far? Did I make any sense at all? :P
I mentioned that I have relationships with people of various beliefs. If I disagree with them, is it better for me to play those differences down or should I be more confrontational? How do you deal with that in your own life while still maintaining integrity?
I said that one religious stereotype about secular people is that they have no morals. How would you describe your moral system? Where do your morals come from?

This is the sixth post in a series I have running at the moment. Click here to see the rest, and if you are interested in participating, leave me a comment and I will email you. Thank you for reading and joining the discussion! :)

I have another fellow Kiwi blogging for me today!

I’m Nellie, and I blog at Nelliebolical. I’m a twenty-four year old graduate (psychology) student, and an atheist.

Tell us a bit about yourself and your beliefs. How did you develop them? Does your family have similar beliefs to yours?
I’m probably the "textbook definition" of an atheist. I listen to metal music, dress in black, want to own a scary looking dog, in a science-based field of study, grumpy and bitter (just like Mr. Gruff the Atheist Goat) and I’m not very appreciative of people who attempt to preach to me. I am, however, guided by my morals and a respectful and respectable member of society. Who would have thunk it?!
I haven’t always been an atheist though. I was baptised Presbyterian as an infant, and as a kid, I chose to attend church with my grandmother and I was also a member of the 2nd Whangarei company of Girls’ Brigade. As I got older and developed my independent thinking skills (and arguably, my intelligence), I started to question the things I was being taught in church and Girls’ Brigade.
Although I’m sure my parents both believe in the Christian God, they are apathetic about religion. They don’t think it matters, whereas I think it does because for some who are religious, it can be a huge and defining part of who they are. I don’t think being an atheist defines me all that much, but I do add that label in when I’m describing myself to give people a very basic idea about the kind of person I am.

Do you discuss your beliefs with others in real life? Why/why not? If you blog, do you write about them?
I will only talk about my beliefs in real life if I am asked about it; otherwise I’d be just as irritating as those who proselytise. I don’t think I have ever explicitly blogged about being an atheist, but I’m sure it has come through in some of my other posts over the years. I do sometimes link to articles about religion on Twitter with my own comments reflecting my beliefs though.

Does your family celebrate Christmas, Easter or other religious/cultural holidays? If yes, how?
My family do celebrate Christmas, but as a reason for our family to get together and gorge ourselves silly on food than anything else. We exchange eggs on Easter, but there’s no religious attachment to that either. Other religious holidays don’t even make an appearance on our calendars.

Do you think there is a stereotypical secular person? Do you think you fit that stereotype?
–

What do you think is the biggest misconception held about secular people? Does it bother you? Why/why not?
I think that is probably the biggest misconception about secular people: that we can’t possibly have morals if we are not religious. This bothers me because it leads people to believe that all atheists are horrible people who wouldn’t think twice about kidnapping and murdering your child or stealing from a donation bucket. Most of us wouldn’t. Promise.

Have you ever felt bullied or marginalised due to your beliefs?
I’ve never been "bullied" about my beliefs, but I have been judged as immoral and an all-round bad person for not even acknowledging the possibility of God existing. I’m never bothered by it though because I know who I am and that I’m a good person.

What do you believe happens to people when they die?
–

Do you have any experience with people evangelising to you? If yes, how do you respond?
I live in an area that is a favourite for Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses. Most are friendly and respect me when I say I’m not interested, but I have met a few who will not take no for an answer. I try not to get angry with them though, because I don’t want to perpetuate that stereotype… even if I’m actually seething and just want them to let me get on with my day.

Are you familiar with any celebrities/fictional characters who self-identify as secular? Any favourites?
–

Anything else you want to write about?
–

Any interesting thoughts or questions to kick-start comments and discussions on this post?
–

This is the fifth post in a series I have running at the moment. Click here to see the rest, and if you are interested in participating, leave me a comment and I will email you. Thank you for reading and joining the discussion! :)